[Starlingx-discuss] timezone confusion on starlingx meetings wiki
Hi, I just noticed that the StarlingX meetings wiki (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Starlingx/Meetings) seems to have mismatching and wrong information. First, the meeting times in the chart at the top of the page doesn't match the detailed listing later on. For example, the chart says the security project meets at "6:30AM PST / 1330 UTC" but the detailed listing says it meets at "6am PDT / 1400 UTC". Similarly, the chart says the multi-OS subproject meets at "7:00AM PST / 1400 UTC" while the detailed listing says "7am PDT / 1500 UTC". Second, the offset between UTC and PDT/PST is inconsistent. PDT should be UTC-7, while PST should be UTC-8. Third, nowhere actually uses PST currently as all those locations use PDT in the summer. Does it make sense to have meeting times in PST right now? Thanks, Chris
On 2019-06-19 09:36:05 -0600 (-0600), Chris Friesen wrote:
I just noticed that the StarlingX meetings wiki (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Starlingx/Meetings) seems to have mismatching and wrong information. [...] nowhere actually uses PST currently as all those locations use PDT in the summer. Does it make sense to have meeting times in PST right now?
If it helps, the OpenStack community long ago gave up on trying to book meetings in any TZ other than UTC, and instead provides calendar files in a popular standard format and expects meeting attendees to be responsible for conversions to their own personal local timezones. There are plenty of parts of the World where people observe no local "Summer Time" or "Daylight Savings Time" (including some places in the continental USA for that matter), and even the parts which do have something like it don't all switch at the same times of year. To make matters worse, from one year to the next, governments like to decide to change those dates on you so even trying to maintain a map of them on your own is ill-advised. For that matter, the entire Pacific coast of the USA may soon switch to "year-round DST" which means there will essentially be no more PST timezone in the USA. The only logical solution is to agree on a coordinated, universal time. Fortunately there is one. Unfortunately it's not "convenient" for a lot of people, but at least it's universally inconvenient. -- Jeremy Stanley
UTC: Universally Inconvenient Has a nice ring to it. On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 12:21pm, "Jeremy Stanley" <fungi@yuggoth.org> said:
_______________________________________________ Starlingx-discuss mailing list Starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io http://lists.starlingx.io/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/starlingx-discuss On 2019-06-19 09:36:05 -0600 (-0600), Chris Friesen wrote:
I just noticed that the StarlingX meetings wiki (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Starlingx/Meetings) seems to have mismatching and wrong information. [...] nowhere actually uses PST currently as all those locations use PDT in the summer. Does it make sense to have meeting times in PST right now?
If it helps, the OpenStack community long ago gave up on trying to book meetings in any TZ other than UTC, and instead provides calendar files in a popular standard format and expects meeting attendees to be responsible for conversions to their own personal local timezones.
There are plenty of parts of the World where people observe no local "Summer Time" or "Daylight Savings Time" (including some places in the continental USA for that matter), and even the parts which do have something like it don't all switch at the same times of year. To make matters worse, from one year to the next, governments like to decide to change those dates on you so even trying to maintain a map of them on your own is ill-advised. For that matter, the entire Pacific coast of the USA may soon switch to "year-round DST" which means there will essentially be no more PST timezone in the USA.
The only logical solution is to agree on a coordinated, universal time. Fortunately there is one. Unfortunately it's not "convenient" for a lot of people, but at least it's universally inconvenient. -- Jeremy Stanley
Both of the last two times that the US changed times between standard and daylight, the project made a conscious decision to keep meeting times the same for the North American community members. I for one am greatly appreciative of that. It helps me avoid major carnage on my calendar. But I’m wondering if we’ve been optimizing for the wrong users. I have a ton of meetings on my calendar – both internal and for the project. But I would guess that the bulk of the folks in our community only have a few internal meetings and only attend a few project meetings. So maybe we should optimize for the many and not the few? Is the “provides calendar files in a popular standard format” this [0]? I see that there are no StarlingX meetings listed there. Brucej [0] http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irc-meetings.ical From: Mark Collier [mailto:mark@openstack.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 10:24 AM To: Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> Cc: starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io Subject: Re: [Starlingx-discuss] timezone confusion on starlingx meetings wiki UTC: Universally Inconvenient Has a nice ring to it. On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 12:21pm, "Jeremy Stanley" <fungi@yuggoth.org<mailto:fungi@yuggoth.org>> said:
_______________________________________________ Starlingx-discuss mailing list Starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io<mailto:Starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io> http://lists.starlingx.io/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/starlingx-discuss On 2019-06-19 09:36:05 -0600 (-0600), Chris Friesen wrote:
I just noticed that the StarlingX meetings wiki (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Starlingx/Meetings) seems to have mismatching and wrong information. [...] nowhere actually uses PST currently as all those locations use PDT in the summer. Does it make sense to have meeting times in PST right now?
If it helps, the OpenStack community long ago gave up on trying to book meetings in any TZ other than UTC, and instead provides calendar files in a popular standard format and expects meeting attendees to be responsible for conversions to their own personal local timezones.
There are plenty of parts of the World where people observe no local "Summer Time" or "Daylight Savings Time" (including some places in the continental USA for that matter), and even the parts which do have something like it don't all switch at the same times of year. To make matters worse, from one year to the next, governments like to decide to change those dates on you so even trying to maintain a map of them on your own is ill-advised. For that matter, the entire Pacific coast of the USA may soon switch to "year-round DST" which means there will essentially be no more PST timezone in the USA.
The only logical solution is to agree on a coordinated, universal time. Fortunately there is one. Unfortunately it's not "convenient" for a lot of people, but at least it's universally inconvenient. -- Jeremy Stanley
On 2019-06-19 19:22:11 +0000 (+0000), Jones, Bruce E wrote: [...]
Is the “provides calendar files in a popular standard format” this [0]? I see that there are no StarlingX meetings listed there.
I was referring more to the individual per-meeting files like http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/calendars/openstack-security-sig-meeting.ics (the overarching .ical file is mostly useful for finding meeting overlap in scheduling for a large community). Anyway, my point was not to promote specific technology, but rather to say that it's possible to coordinate meetings in a common timezone and that doing so in one which doesn't itself jump around at various times of year at least provides a stable point of reference and gives all attendees an equal chance of figuring out what that means for the particular bit of the planet on which they live (or happen to be visiting in a given week). I have no idea whether or not StarlingX holds meetings over IRC, but the reason you're not finding any StarlingX meetings in the list is that it's based on https://opendev.org/opendev/irc-meetings/src/branch/master/meetings into which nobody has yet added any StarlingX-specific entries. I don't see any reason, either with OpenDev sysadmin or OpenStack TC hats on, to consider that an OpenStack-only resource. I expect the domain name there will switch to opendev.org in the near-ish future at least, so if the current domain on the site URLs doesn't bother you and the StarlingX IRC meeting attendees would consider it useful then please feel free to push up additions through Gerrit. -- Jeremy Stanley
participants (4)
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Chris Friesen
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Jeremy Stanley
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Jones, Bruce E
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Mark Collier