[Starlingx-discuss] docker vs cri-o / centos vs alma / silverblue / coreos
can i ask if there is a plan to remove docker moving forward in favor of cri-o? as we know k8s 1.24.+ drops docker support unless using the docker-shim preferably we have already tested and run k8s / openstack-helm via crio so we know it works curious how this applies to starlingx V7 and higher? further to that are there plans aside from CentOS to move the rpm base to say Alma or CoreOS or Silverblue even. (both are ostree based) as Ive seen the debian build deploying with ostree onboard? or is the plan to drop rpm based distros long term and just run with debian ? We have deployed magmacore on stx 6.0 and are in the process of upgrading the infrastructure. My curiosities exists as whats the starling X impact going to be long term, as I would like to put all my eggs in this basket. -- Sent with Vivaldi Mail. Download Vivaldi for free at vivaldi.com
See in-lined comments below, Greg. -----Original Message----- From: Embedded Devel <lists@optimcloud.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 5:01 AM To: StarlingX ML <starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io> Subject: [Starlingx-discuss] docker vs cri-o / centos vs alma / silverblue / coreos [Please note: This e-mail is from an EXTERNAL e-mail address] can i ask if there is a plan to remove docker moving forward in favor of cri-o? as we know k8s 1.24.+ drops docker support unless using the docker-shim
[Greg] StarlingX's default container runtime is containerd (StarlingX switched from docker container runtime to containerd several releases ago ... can't remember exactly ... but quite a while ago. )
There are no specific plans for cri-o container runtime at the moment. It is on StarlingX's wish list of things to investigate
preferably we have already tested and run k8s / openstack-helm via crio so we know it works curious how this applies to starlingx V7 and higher?
[Greg] its containerd runtime for StarlingX R7 and the immediate future
further to that are there plans aside from CentOS to move the rpm base to say Alma or CoreOS or Silverblue even. (both are ostree based) as Ive seen the debian build deploying with ostree onboard? or is the plan to drop rpm based distros long term and just run with debian ?
[Greg] Starlingx is moving to Yocto Kernel, Debian distro delivered with ostree. https://docs.starlingx.io/specs/specs/stx-6.0/approved/starlingx_2008846_deb... https://docs.starlingx.io/specs/specs/stx-6.0/approved/starlingx_2008704_deb...
the specs were written in R6 timeframe, initial work is being done in R7 timeframe, with a Debian Preview (with lots of limitations ... e.g. only the kubernetes platform and not stx-openstack is supported on Debian) is available in R7 ( https://docs.starlingx.io/debian/index-debian-introduction-8eb59cf0a062.html ) NOTE for R7, the CentOS build is still the main StarlingX build StarlingX will be transitioning completely to Debian in R8 timeframe ... i.e. CentOS builds will be removed.
We have deployed magmacore on stx 6.0 and are in the process of upgrading the infrastructure. My curiosities exists as whats the starling X impact going to be long term, as I would like to put all my eggs in this basket.
[Greg]
Good to hear 😊 . The more you can share about your use case (and what capabilities of StarlingX you rely on) the better, so we can make informed decisions on StarlingX's evolution. I'd also encourage you to attend StarlingX Release Meetings, Community Meetings and even PTG meetings in order to understand and provide input on the direction of StarlingX.
Greg.
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On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 8:43 PM Waines, Greg <Greg.Waines@windriver.com> wrote:
[Greg] StarlingX's default container runtime is containerd (StarlingX switched from docker container runtime to containerd several releases ago ... can't remember exactly ... but quite a while ago. )
There are no specific plans for cri-o container runtime at the moment. It is on StarlingX's wish list of things to investigate
thats good to know at least.
further to that are there plans aside from CentOS to move the rpm base to say Alma or CoreOS or Silverblue even. (both are ostree based) as Ive seen the debian build deploying with ostree onboard? or is the plan to drop rpm based distros long term and just run with debian ?
[Greg] Starlingx is moving to Yocto Kernel, Debian distro delivered with ostree. https://docs.starlingx.io/specs/specs/stx-6.0/approved/starlingx_2008846_deb... https://docs.starlingx.io/specs/specs/stx-6.0/approved/starlingx_2008704_deb...
the specs were written in R6 timeframe, initial work is being done in R7 timeframe, with a Debian Preview (with lots of limitations ... e.g. only the kubernetes platform and not stx-openstack is supported on Debian) is available in R7 ( https://docs.starlingx.io/debian/index-debian-introduction-8eb59cf0a062.html ) NOTE for R7, the CentOS build is still the main StarlingX build StarlingX will be transitioning completely to Debian in R8 timeframe ... i.e. CentOS builds will be removed.
Welp, that kills our use case for upgrading, first we need openstack-helm in the mix, second it sounds like it will be a fork-life upgrade, not backwards compatible seeing as the os changed from CentOS to Debian Im familiar with yocto, so at least bring ostree into the mix is a good idea.
We have deployed magmacore on stx 6.0 and are in the process of upgrading the infrastructure. My curiosities exists as whats the starling X impact going to be long term, as I would like to put all my eggs in this basket.
[Greg]
Good to hear 😊 . The more you can share about your use case (and what capabilities of StarlingX you rely on) the better, so we can make informed decisions on StarlingX's evolution. I'd also encourage you to attend StarlingX Release Meetings, Community Meetings and even PTG meetings in order to understand and provide input on the direction of StarlingX.
LOL Wind River should just hire me to work on STX full-time. I can say im not 100% happy about the dropping of CentOS, in lieu of an Os change to CoreOs, or other, Yocto/Debian is nice but... thats a reinstall for sure. a good amount of interruption to prod environments and capex for new servers.
Greg.
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_______________________________________________ Starlingx-discuss mailing list Starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io http://lists.starlingx.io/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/starlingx-discuss _______________________________________________ Starlingx-discuss mailing list Starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io http://lists.starlingx.io/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/starlingx-discuss
See in-lined below, Greg. -----Original Message----- From: Outback Dingo <outbackdingo@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 9:59 AM To: Waines, Greg <Greg.Waines@windriver.com> Cc: Embedded Devel <lists@optimcloud.com>; StarlingX ML <starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io> Subject: Re: [Starlingx-discuss] docker vs cri-o / centos vs alma / silverblue / coreos [Please note: This e-mail is from an EXTERNAL e-mail address] On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 8:43 PM Waines, Greg <Greg.Waines@windriver.com> wrote:
[Greg] StarlingX's default container runtime is containerd (StarlingX switched from docker container runtime to containerd several releases ago ... can't remember exactly ... but quite a while ago. )
There are no specific plans for cri-o container runtime at the moment. It is on StarlingX's wish list of things to investigate
thats good to know at least.
further to that are there plans aside from CentOS to move the rpm base to say Alma or CoreOS or Silverblue even. (both are ostree based) as Ive seen the debian build deploying with ostree onboard? or is the plan to drop rpm based distros long term and just run with debian ?
[Greg] Starlingx is moving to Yocto Kernel, Debian distro delivered with ostree. https://docs.starlingx.io/specs/specs/stx-6.0/approved/starlingx_200 8846_debian_build.html https://docs.starlingx.io/specs/specs/stx-6.0/approved/starlingx_200 8704_debian_transition.html
the specs were written in R6 timeframe, initial work is being done in R7 timeframe, with a Debian Preview (with lots of limitations ... e.g. only the kubernetes platform and not stx-openstack is supported on Debian) is available in R7 ( https://docs.starlingx.io/debian/index-debian-introduction-8eb59cf0a062.html ) NOTE for R7, the CentOS build is still the main StarlingX build StarlingX will be transitioning completely to Debian in R8 timeframe ... i.e. CentOS builds will be removed.
Welp, that kills our use case for upgrading, first we need openstack-helm in the mix, second it sounds like it will be a fork-life upgrade, not backwards compatible seeing as the os changed from CentOS to Debian Im familiar with yocto, so at least bring ostree into the mix is a good idea. [Greg] I don't understand your comment [Greg] You could upgrade from STX R6 @ CentOS to STX R7 @ CentOS ... and then from STX R7 @ CentOS to STX R8 @ Debian [Greg] 'openstack-helm' is being used in all releases of STX
We have deployed magmacore on stx 6.0 and are in the process of upgrading the infrastructure. My curiosities exists as whats the starling X impact going to be long term, as I would like to put all my eggs in this basket.
[Greg]
Good to hear 😊 . The more you can share about your use case (and what capabilities of StarlingX you rely on) the better, so we can make informed decisions on StarlingX's evolution. I'd also encourage you to attend StarlingX Release Meetings, Community Meetings and even PTG meetings in order to understand and provide input on the direction of StarlingX.
LOL Wind River should just hire me to work on STX full-time. I can say im not 100% happy about the dropping of CentOS, in lieu of an Os change to CoreOs, or other, Yocto/Debian is nice but... thats a reinstall for sure. a good amount of interruption to prod environments and capex for new servers. [Greg] You are very welcome to contribute to StarlingX independent of where you are actually working. [Greg] [Greg] You should be able to use StarlingX to support an upgrade from STX R7 @ CentOS to STX R8 @ Debian . [Greg] That is the plan ... the individuals working on StarlingX have experience on similar projects doing such an OS transition over an upgrade. [Greg] It will likely require you to build a PATCH for StarlingX R7 @ CentOS in order to get it to work. (design details TBD) [Greg] ( As you probably know, StarlingX CENGN build services does not build PATCHes. ) [Greg] [Greg] Greg.
Greg.
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_______________________________________________ Starlingx-discuss mailing list Starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io http://lists.starlingx.io/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/starlingx-discuss _______________________________________________ Starlingx-discuss mailing list Starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io http://lists.starlingx.io/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/starlingx-discuss
On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 9:30 PM Waines, Greg <Greg.Waines@windriver.com> wrote:
See in-lined below, Greg.
-----Original Message----- From: Outback Dingo <outbackdingo@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 9:59 AM To: Waines, Greg <Greg.Waines@windriver.com> Cc: Embedded Devel <lists@optimcloud.com>; StarlingX ML <starlingx-discuss@lists.starlingx.io> Subject: Re: [Starlingx-discuss] docker vs cri-o / centos vs alma / silverblue / coreos
[Please note: This e-mail is from an EXTERNAL e-mail address]
On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 8:43 PM Waines, Greg <Greg.Waines@windriver.com> wrote:
[Greg] StarlingX's default container runtime is containerd (StarlingX switched from docker container runtime to containerd several releases ago ... can't remember exactly ... but quite a while ago. )
There are no specific plans for cri-o container runtime at the moment. It is on StarlingX's wish list of things to investigate
thats good to know at least.
further to that are there plans aside from CentOS to move the rpm base to say Alma or CoreOS or Silverblue even. (both are ostree based) as Ive seen the debian build deploying with ostree onboard? or is the plan to drop rpm based distros long term and just run with debian ?
[Greg] Starlingx is moving to Yocto Kernel, Debian distro delivered with ostree. https://docs.starlingx.io/specs/specs/stx-6.0/approved/starlingx_200 8846_debian_build.html https://docs.starlingx.io/specs/specs/stx-6.0/approved/starlingx_200 8704_debian_transition.html
the specs were written in R6 timeframe, initial work is being done in R7 timeframe, with a Debian Preview (with lots of limitations ... e.g. only the kubernetes platform and not stx-openstack is supported on Debian) is available in R7 ( https://docs.starlingx.io/debian/index-debian-introduction-8eb59cf0a062.html ) NOTE for R7, the CentOS build is still the main StarlingX build StarlingX will be transitioning completely to Debian in R8 timeframe ... i.e. CentOS builds will be removed.
Welp, that kills our use case for upgrading, first we need openstack-helm in the mix, second it sounds like it will be a fork-life upgrade, not backwards compatible seeing as the os changed from CentOS to Debian Im familiar with yocto, so at least bring ostree into the mix is a good idea.
[Greg] I don't understand your comment [Greg] You could upgrade from STX R6 @ CentOS to STX R7 @ CentOS ... and then from STX R7 @ CentOS to STX R8 @ Debian [Greg] 'openstack-helm' is being used in all releases of STX
where you mentioned "not stx-openstack is supported on Debian" i took it to mean by STX R8 openstack-helm would be dropped in the transition from CentOS to Debian.
LOL Wind River should just hire me to work on STX full-time. I can say im not 100% happy about the dropping of CentOS, in lieu of an Os change to CoreOs, or other, Yocto/Debian is nice but... thats a reinstall for sure. a good amount of interruption to prod environments and capex for new servers.
[Greg] You are very welcome to contribute to StarlingX independent of where you are actually working. [Greg] [Greg] You should be able to use StarlingX to support an upgrade from STX R7 @ CentOS to STX R8 @ Debian . [Greg] That is the plan ... the individuals working on StarlingX have experience on similar projects doing such an OS transition over an upgrade. [Greg] It will likely require you to build a PATCH for StarlingX R7 @ CentOS in order to get it to work. (design details TBD) [Greg] ( As you probably know, StarlingX CENGN build services does not build PATCHes. ) [Greg] [Greg] Greg.
Greg.
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participants (3)
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Embedded Devel
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Outback Dingo
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Waines, Greg